Scaling Your Business With Virtual Events Featuring Mark Stern

Mark Stern dishes on leaving a high paying corporate job and finding his place in the entrepreneurial world as a virtual event influencer. If you’re looking for clarity and advice on taking the leap into entrepreneurship, you’re going to want to...

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Mark Stern dishes on leaving a high paying corporate job and finding his place in the entrepreneurial world as a virtual event influencer. If you’re looking for clarity and advice on taking the leap into entrepreneurship, you’re going to want to listen to Mark’s episode on scaling business through virtual events. 


“In entrepreneurship, what's powerful is no one can tell me no.” - Mark Stern 


#virtualevents #virtualsummit


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Mark (00:00):

When you go through the transition of leaving corporate togo all in on entrepreneurship. Like why I'm such an advocate of it is it's justthe headspace. You have, you free up the mental capacity to actually getclarity on what it is you want. When I was at corporate, I was constantlybattling with a lot of things mentally. I mean, I did not even have a planleaving. All I knew is that with a clear mindset I can get there lot faster.

Dallin (00:21):

Welcome to visionaries where we, you believe having apositive vision for the future and actually sharing it is the best way to builda brand, grow authority and live a meaningful life. The show will explore differentstories and strategies of the most visionary people today and what they'redoing to inspire change the world. Hey, what's up everyone? Welcome back to theshow we have on Mark Stern. What's up Mark?

Mark (00:43):

Hey, thanks for having me. It's good being here.

Dallin (00:45):

Yeah. Good to see you. Uh, well for those who are justtuning in to learn about you, give us a quick overview of who you are.

New Speaker (00:54):

Sure, sure. Um, so my backstory is, you know, I grew up inMontgomery, Alabama and I was the guy who like when you talk about like thepathway to life, this is like the pathway to happiness. I was the guy who waslike the poster child for the pathway to happiness. So I like went to highschool, um, graduated, went to the college I wanted to go to and then aftercollege had the dream job that I want to do after college. Few years later, um,went back to grad school cause that's what I was supposed to do, got my MBA.Um, and then, you know, the dream job after that and then, you know, life issupposed to be happy.

Mark (01:25):

But the reality of what had happened was, um, you know, ifI flash forward to, um, where in when I got my MBA, I got my MBA at Duke intwo. I graduated in 2012. And um, you know, for me like everything in life wasso great. Um, but then I find myself in a position in 2012 that you graduate becausethat's the past. But then I found myself into, you know, with two obstacles Iwas facing. One was, um, I had a $165,000 in student loans. Um, and two, I justsigned a minimum of a two year contract with, um, the world's largestconsulting firm where anything that I produced was owned by them. And when youhave that inner entrepreneur in you, I loved my corporate job. The problem waswhen you have that entrepreneurial spirit and you know, you can't quench it.Mmm.

Mark (02:16):

The trouble was it was very stifling. It was verysuffocating to want to express something that I wanted to delve deeper into. Soit took years to finally get in a mental state, which with the student loans,for me, I think a lot of that was more mental. And the actual number was theweight I put on myself. Um, and then when it came to my career, I was consumingeverything that you could offer in front of me, um, for entrepreneurship as aform of medicine for the fact that I could not even produce, I couldn't evenhave an email list or a product. So I can not have a side hustle because bycontract his side hustle would be owned by the firm. Um, so that led me on apath of, I loved the journey I was on, but then you find yourself at a certainpoint to say either this is the journey for life because the higher you get inthat type of model, it's all about becoming a partner.

Mark (03:02):

And when you become a partner, it's like restarting a journey,but you invest in the firm. So you'd have to be involved and invested for itwell over a decade for that to pan out. Or I can put pause on this and finallyscratch the itch. So it was literally a year ago that I finally said, if Idon't make the leap and scratch this itch, I will always regret this for therest of my life. And that led me on the journey that I am today. And so a lotof what I do today is, um, teach people. I like to, I play in two differentzones. One is I help entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs, people who are indeep corporate like where I came from, make the transition to entrepreneurship.So the line of products with that are, I did a virtual summit, uh, that was theclickperneur summit.

Mark (03:42):

I have a lot of products around clickperneur, which one inparticular is entrepreneur elements. And it's all about getting back to thebasics when you're ready to make the transition out of corporateentrepreneurship. And my other core business right now is disrupting thevirtual summit model. So for those of you who don't know what a virtual summitis, virtual summit is where it's basically a virtual conference where you bringpeople together on an online platform. It's a really powerful way to elevateinfluencers, generate a ton of content, give value, um, to participants for apretty low, if not free, um, fee. Mmm. That really helps them get exposure towhatever the topic of that summit is, like going to a conference but virtuallyand on your own time.

Dallin (04:23):

That's powerful. I love that you walked through the stepsof these journey. And one thing I want to break down before we go further iswhat about the entrepreneurial itch is attractive to you? What does it providefor you? Like personally but also for like achievement wise? Like what do you,what are you chasing?

New Speaker (04:42):

Yeah, when I was in my corporate job, um, it would havebeen a different answer. Um, I think that where my head was in corporate andthe one thing if you, and for those listeners who are like deep into corporate,the one thing that I had to realize was, um, I was so invested in my corporatejob and it was a pretty intense job to the point that I did not have the mentalcapacity to have a side hustle. So the idea of, or even to become anentrepreneur because my mind was so clouded with the work I was doing. So ifyou'd asked me then what I would have told you is that the, the word thatpeople come that comes to mind is I think freedom.

Mark (05:15):

Um, and it's like, and life will be better when you havecontrol. No one really talks about like, like I wish I heard more about whatthe journey was like and the importance of mindset going to the journey. But mymindset was like, that situation will just be better than where I am in rightnow because I'll be able to serve at a different level. And the answer is yes,you will be to serve, especially as you grow your influence. But I think whatchanged for me, and it didn't happen until, um, I did, uh, the clickpreneursummit was this, it was if I weren't so clickperneur summit when I hosted thatevent, Mmm. Nobody told me to host it. Nobody gave me permission to host it.And the reality is in the corporate realm, if I were asked if I were to applyfor a job to be a host, I would never have been selected.

Mark (06:04):

I could never imagine getting hired for a job as a host inthat model. But in entrepreneurship, what's powerful about that is no one cantell me no. So like the rewiring of the corporate mindset as I wastransitioning out of this was one of the most important things for me. Mmm. Butit wasn't until I was putting things into motion that I was just like, I cancreate whatever I want. And it brought a very different meaning to what freedomreally meant. But the ability to not have someone tell you no, you will, likeyou will face the challenge at the beginning of this is what I faced, which waspeople may not see your vision and they may not get it right away, but you gotto keep doing it because once you show them and it's you that has to show them,they'll get it.

Mark (06:49):

And that was what was like the most powerful element ofentrepreneurship. Just the ability to like truly create something and not havesomeone tell you that you can or can't or have to apply to it and get acceptedinto that, that role. You know?

Dallin (07:04):

And that's part of also, and that definitely relates, youknow, for those listening and for the message of story therapy stories, youknow, using our personal stories like you, what you just shared to thenleverage it into your summit or other offers, it pulls in an interestingelement of permission. And in what that was, do you know what form that takes?Um, and also like what has stopped us from the lack of permission in the past?Um, meaning like for you talked about corporate, um, limitations that were setthat would keep you from bigger signs of freedom. I mean, for sure withincorporate there's an aspect of freedom as far as maybe finances.

Dallin (07:48):

Oh. Depending on where you're at in that journey. Mmm. ButI think for many it goes far beyond than just finances. I think to me, I don'tthink of it as lifestyle, you know, like lifestyle then encompasses the timefreedom or the financial freedom. Um, but the permission for us to first giveourselves permission, but also to have the support around us, to have otherpeople in some ways give us permission as well, that Hey, Mmm. Whether that'sno, you know, think of it like you and I obviously got connected before I evenasked him to be on this podcast a little bit. But if I were just to reach outto you, cold turkey and say, Hey Mark, did you want to do an a podcast? You'dbe like, who's this guy? I don't know who this guy is, but he's given me alittle bit of permission so to speak, to speak on his platform or speak on aplatform like a podcast.

Dallin (08:41):

And uh, and so I think finding opportunities forpermission is idle, especially in entrepreneurship.

New Speaker (08:50):

And what I will add on that is right now I'm doing my nextevent is all about high sales. So it's been fun interviewing all these high toget experts. Yeah. And the first question I always ask them is around like whatdoes eliminate beliefs did you see people have? And it's the same thing againand again and again that our biggest obstacle in this game is ourselves. It'sthe voice in our head that we just like, we like stop ourselves when otherpeople believe in you. And then that was like the piece that I just kept onsaying that like, why haven't I done this? And it was because of me. And thatwas like the realization of like me holding me back. It's like almost like whenyou recognize that and you can call it out, then you can address it and moveon.

Mark (09:32):

Um, that was like a, uh, like a huge, huge thing I'mseeing. And it's a huge battle that I face for when I put things off. A lot ofit's because the voices that I'm letting myself, like in my head, I'm lettingthem win in ways that like, it's, this is where you got to listen with yourheart and just trust and go with it. And put yourself out there.

Dallin (09:51):

So what, uh, what began to happen for you to actually beable to recognize, like what feelings did you have? What events started tohappen? Where you actually recognize like, wait a minute, I have all theselimiting beliefs that are keeping you back?

New Speaker (10:04):

Yeah. Um, I had a good mentor and friend who told me, um,you know, I came from a very analytical world. Uh, she comes from a much morewee world than I did. Um, but one of the things that she said that I, I'm afirm believer in is, um, she was talking about the importance that if you areoff track, you've got to recognize the signs around you and what's happeningaround you. And she was like, like I remember being at a point at work that Iwas working with. Mmm. The person I reported to was a new person that was newinto the role and the environment that she created put so much stress on me andmy team that was unnecessary. And um, you know, when I was getting frustratedat the situation and my friend looked at me and said, why don't you look atthat as a sign and stop looking at it as like, you're frustrated with thisindividual, but maybe the sign that you're off track, you're not where you needto be.

Mark (10:54):

Um, so it was that, and here was the power of what shesaid. She said, if you don't recognize these signs, they're going to get a lotmore painful until you have to recognize them. And that was, that was thereality was that I started, once I recognize the signs, the pressure came offand it allowed me to focus back on the track that I needed to be on one of mypersonal ones that like I could not, I could not explain. It was Mmm, I'msomeone who loves to go to the gym. You know, I used to go to the gym likethree or four times a week and then I found myself in the spell of having nomotivation to go to the gym. And I could not explain why I was losing themotivation for something that I truly took a passion in.

Mark (11:31):

And it was a pain point and it just wasn't the same. Partme was like when I started recognizing those types of signs, I knew somethingwas different, but I couldn't explain it. It was just recognizing that maybethis is the world sending me a message. Just say I'm off track and I need toget on track. And those types of cues. My health, I felt like my health,because I was traveling so much was, um, the worst it's ever been. And I was ina corporate job with that for six years straight. Every week I was on anairplane and now something is different. So I think that the thing that kickedin was the realization of these small things that once that I was at a placeand it was Christmas break, um, 2017, um, when I finally had a week off of workcause I was in such an intense environment that I feel left my head the secondI recognize what was going on.

Mark (12:19):

It was, uh, I, I gotta move on. Like I can't, I can't keepdoing what I'm doing because like something is often I can't explain it. Butwhat I do know is that I've had this desire that if I don't scratch it, I haveto. And it was literally within, I think it was ju, uh, January 3rd, 2018 iswhen I reached out to my partner and said, I love this. You know, I was on theverge of promotion, but I was like, this is not the right path for me rightnow. Um, and started the process of transition.

Dallin (12:47):

Wow. Wow. You know, it's, it's incredible too. Cause Imean what you described right, is like you are, you're so in the midst of likethe hustle or you know, working so much that you're basically like when the, bythe time you have your head come out of the water so to speak, um, a lot ofthat like then you can see a little bit more clearly.

Dallin (13:07):

You have that breather to then I think have moreepiphanies and ideas come. And, and that's what's interesting too where, um, Idon't know if was a podcast or maybe it was a Ted Talk, but someone talkedabout this. I this concept of boredom that we should seek for times too. Notnecessarily be bored, but to slow down or to, you know, lift her head abovewater, you know, a little bit to kind of get a gauge for like, wait a minute,where am I at? What kind of questions can I ask myself? Right now that, um,that could open up new opportunities. And, and that, that leads me actually toanother thought I wanted to, they hit on too, that you reminded me of was in arecent podcast interview, um, we talked about this idea of asking powerfulquestions and one question that came up and you totally hit on it, is this ideathat Mmm. Asking ourselves or asking others, what did this event or experiencedo to us to open up a new opportunity or a new door, um, and, and that in, in away that's like maybe more positive way to ask like, what's getting in my wayfrom what I want? And, and for you, I mean, you walked us through that, right?It was, is the idea that, um, going on this path you're currently on, withinthe corporate structure that you're in, was keeping you from the freedom andthe ambition that was matched with what you want to do as an entrepreneur.

New Speaker (14:37):

Coming from such a deep corporate background, veryanalytical background. And it's the things that you can't explain and I couldnot explain it. Like when you go through the transition of leaving corporate togo all in on entrepreneurship. Like why I'm such an advocate of it is it's justthe headspace. You free up the mental capacity to actually get clarity on whatit is you want. When I was at corporate, I was constantly battling with a lotof things mentally. I mean, I did not even have a plan leaving. All I knew isthat with a clear mindset, I can get there a lot faster than if I tried to. Icould. I'm just not a side hustle guy. I don't think a side hustle would'veworked for what for me. But here's what was interesting about what played outwas I talk about the signs. Um, it was like October, like September, October ofseventh, 2017 way before I even knew I was going to put my notice in. Mmm. Ialways have wanted a dog. I grew up in a dog family and, um, was following abunch of breeders and you know, I found this one breeder that I was, I don'tknow what it was, but I reached out to her and say, like, I gave her a depositfor a dog and I said, um, I want a black headed female tri-colored Corgi. Um,it's on the smaller side. Like I know I want this puppy. And she looked at meand said, I don't like, I don't have that. Mmm. And she's like, my next litterwon't be that. And the day I put in my notice that evening, the woman who Igave the deposit to posted a black, had a female tri-colored Corgi on thesmaller side. And so when it was like, like that was what was amazing about it.Cause it's like you just kind of, in this situation, it's like, show me a signthat what I did is not, um, is the right move. And that was just incredible tosee. Like the day, that evening, like I didn't wrap that day. I'm thinking I'dbe adopting a dog. And you know, it's funny cause now a year and a half lateralmost that dog's my life. Like she means the world to me, but she also meetlike represents the journey that I'm on.

Dallin (16:29):

Wow. That's, that's incredible. You know, and that's whereI haven't gotten to this yet. You with you, but with, with my own job, like I'mjust thinking of, um, I was putting myself in your shoes as you're walking methrough that and like the emotions you felt and how like, you know, youidentify as like, she's my life. Like you've, you found, um, she was a verydefinite sign that this new like transition, you're taking this new journey. Itwas meant to be. And like when I quit my job July of last year, um, I, I mean Iliked the job. I wasn't necessarily being worked to the bone, but it was moreof like, I was in a position where I've already been promoted. My boss justtold me after my last promotion that she's like, well you don't, don't ask forthis again for a couple of years because X, Y, you know, like all thesereasons. I'm like, huh, Oh like already. Like I don't know, there's, there'sall these signs and um, that happening. But basically, um, how I felt was,well, wait a minute. I mean ambitious, why am I being told that I can't beambitious enough to keep progressing? And so I was kind of reached a cap on myparishioners progression. I was like, Whoa, what else is there? But it'sinteresting too, cause like the signs just began to stack up right there whenwe move forward in a certain direction. Mmm. Either the signs stack up thatthere are red flags, right? We're like, Ooh, no, that's not the rightdirection. Maybe you shouldn't do that. Or there are all these positive signsor negative signs that definitely point us and the direction we should be goingin. And one thing was like, literally the day I quit or a was leaving, it wasmy, it was hours before my exit interview last day. And they'd call it wholedepartment meeting. They lay off a bunch of people and they restructure thedepartment. My team changed every, I was just all of these, all of these thingshappening and I was just blown away. So I was leaving and I was like, well, um,I'm super excited. Like there was no nerves at all, but I was like, this istotally meant to be like, who knows where my position would have been at, youknow, this next day. So it's pretty insane and what can happen. Mmm. So yeah,put yourself in that place.

New Speaker (18:38):

It's so funny hearing because literally the week after Iput in my notice they announced a massive restructuring and people gotdisplaced. My team was not what it would have been if I was still there. Itwould be a very different experience. Um it's funny that you faced that too.And it was also one of those, like, after I knew I was transitioned to be likethe outsider watching what was happening, it's not a bad thing. It was just adifferent thing. I'm just glad that when those things happen, it's instantly,am I going to be working on the thing that I've enjoyed working on or am Igoing to be now pigeonholed I'm working on something that I have no intereston.

Dallin (19:18):

Yeah, that's solid. So I kind of wanted to pack this alittle bit too. Mmm. Let's kinda, let's pull apart like what you haveidentified, right? We talked about asking questions. Um, and I mean really youasked a lot of internal questions and not like you went to Mmm. Your family orlike coworkers and maybe you did, but, but you'd be asked questions of yourselfof well, wait a minute, when I have a moment to breathe and to slow down[inaudible] where I'm at currently, the best place for me, like, is this what Iwant? Um, will I regret going down this path for the next, you know, 20] 30,whatever many years. Um, or is there something else kind of pulling at me thatI want also do this? And so like, I think it's being willing to slow down andask yourself some key questions of is, you know, is this our the path we'resupposed to be on right now? Yeah.

New Speaker (20:11):

I mean, um, I, I, I'll tell you that for me, um, thehardest thing I kept on, I had one of the mindsets and, and I, I mean I had themindset that I had to have it figured out before I left. And I think that wasone of the things that was holding me back a little bit was because if I don'thave it figured out, then you know, I'm going to quit my job and then you know,everything's going to fall apart.

Mark (20:33):

And it wasn't until I finally just gave myself permissionto say like, once I like gay myself inside too much is going on, there's toomany moving pieces. I don't have full clarity the amount of concepts so that Iwas playing with every idea that had at the time. It was great to go throughthe exercises, but I would never want, would have once it's about ourbusinesses and those, so like mentally like getting, giving myself permission,Mmm. Was huge and it took me a long time to get there. Hmm.

Dallin (21:04):

Well and, and that's a, I'm glad you emphasized the longtime aspect because, um, I I know for a lot listening and me included, um, the processof giving herself permission and even the little things. Mmm. And a lot oftimes where we're at as entrepreneurs is like the next level, especially forthose who are aspiring to you know, the flowery impact more people and changethe world. You know, that's thrown around a lot. Mmm. A lot of times what wedon't always like gauge or were you kind of forget about is well wait a minute,the world we've got to change is our own first and focus on like how can webecome an influencer to the one, which is ourselves and you know, like I, I doenjoy that word cause I think it is really powerful, but it's, it's recognizingthat well, you can try to serve so many people, but if you're not servingyourself, you're not influencing yourself, then what does it all for? And so,um, the more we can recognize that it does, it's a journey and it takes lots oftime. And I think taking the steps of giving ourselves permission to, to ownthat, to own that story. Mmm. And to understand, you mentioned the voices inour head too, like things that are slowing us down is rec, recognize what'sslowing us down, but own, own that story and then move forward and, and just bepublishing be present and be a, be willing to give ourselves permission.

Mark (22:34):

Yeah, absolutely.

Dallin (22:37):

What do you feel like is next for you? So, um, you know,you've been here a year into your own business, um, what are you workingtowards next?

New Speaker (22:47):

Yeah. Um, my here, here's what's interesting. When Istarted this journey, like was fully engulfed in it. I wouldn't say that I'veinformally been part of this journey for years because I would consume everye-learning, every conference that was out there. Um, and it was very much adifferent game. But I'm glad I did that too with the exposure and kind ofunderstand the environment beforehand. Um, I remember like when I first madethe leap into entrepreneurship, Mmm. I spoke to a mentor and this is a guywho's like really like built up his brand, huge following and told them thatlike, part of what I wanted to do was, um, go deep on a topic.

Mark (23:25):

Mmm. Um, create systems around it and automation and likeget it to a point that I can just automate it and that we'll be able togenerate revenue and providing value to my audience. And then the next month beable to do it again in a different domain. So if I wanted to go deep intochatbots this month, the next month, if I wanted to go deep into virtualreality or whatever the topic may be, that is of interest at the time go deep,build a product around it, set it on autopilot, and then move on and um, wastold that you can't do that. Like that's not a good idea, that you need to befocused. And at the time was told, I need to focus on a practice businessbefore I get to the real business, which I would never recommend anyone workingon a practice business. Just go for the thing.

Mark (24:04):

Is it exciting to you? Because when you work on thingsthat excite you, you're going to show up a lot better than if you're working onsomething just to learn the skill. So I'm just like a proponent of if you makea mistake, everyone's gonna forgive you. We're all human. The vulnerability maywork in your favor in that regard. So to your question of like, where am Igoing next? It's funny to see. I was told no, then where I'm going is doingexactly that. So, um, I, um, my whole business model is around disrupting thevirtual summit model. Um, virtual summits are very powerful platform toincrease your, um, and it's a great way to engage with speakers. The challengethat I find with the virtual summit and the term traditional model is you mayhave 25, 30, 40, 50 speakers on it. When you think about the speaker experienceand the participant experience, I'm more of a proponent to say, if I'm going toinvite you to it, let's be intentional with the story I'm going to take youthrough each day of the conference.

Mark (25:01):

And let's make sure that if you do a virtual summit, youdon't need 50 speakers. You can create a powerful event that provides value.You build that know, like, and trust factor and gets people to consume thatcontent. Cause oftentimes a virtual summit or a virtual event is on theforefront of a funnel. So it's kind of that first engagement you would have. It'susually free or at a nominal price. Generally, it's free if you give your emailaddress. But the goal should be how do I build a longterm relationship with theparticipant? So that's where I'm like, I don't want to overwhelm you with a tonof content up front that you can't consume. I'd rather have a model that haseight to 12 speakers on a centralized topic where I can not only give deep withthe speakers, but I can also delve deeper than their content and how Irepurpose it before the event.

Mark (25:43):

When you have eight to 12, you can do that a lot easierthan if you have, um, 25 or 30 speakers or more. I've seen some summits thathave upwards 70 to a hundred speakers, like massive amounts events. The bestthing I can do for a listener of one of my events, is provide you just enoughcontent that you have value in a quick one. And then I can ascend you up myvalue ladder to get you to buy higher ticket products. And it's not aboutspending more money. It's about when people spend more money on higher ticketproducts, the likelihood that they're going to take action and serious actionto achieve the results. Is a lot higher when you have a higher ticket productto offer them. You can provide them the support to constantly, I send them upto the next level. So what I'm doing now is just that, you know, every othermonth you're going to see me launch a different virtual event.

Mark (26:26):

Next month is all about high ticket sales. So I have 12incredible influencers lined up. We've gone through many different high ticketmodels, but 12 is just such a powerful, manageable number that allows me tohave a virtual event every other month cause to interview 12 people. I mean,Dallin, you interview, you can easily two, three, four, five people, six peoplea week if you wanted to. In two weeks you can have the interviews done and thenspend the rest of the time generating content off of that and being able to,Mmm. Uh, structure in a way that provides a lot of values for your attendees.So this month is all about high ticket and going deep. And then what I'm goingto do off of that, it's not only do I have this powerful 12 interviews and allthese amazing bonuses, I'll be able to create a product off of what I'velearned from 12 speakers.

Mark (27:13):

Mmm. On top of that, the next month you're gonna see me doa product called body mind online. So it's getting into the importance of bodyand mindset when it comes to starting the entrepreneurial journey. And you'regoing to start to see themes that come out that activate different speakers ondifferent topics and creating a product around it that I can send on autopilot.So it's interesting to see things come full circle and a model that I was toldno is now translating to not only an ability to deliver value to the listeners,but it's also becoming social proof to my core model. Which is teaching peoplehow to do this.

Dallin (27:45):

That's solid. That's so good. You know, and I and I thinkthe opportunity to repurpose like I mean are ready to, um, okay. Aroundcreating podcasts right around the interview is, you know, there's so manyopportunities to repurpose that. And I love that there is a focus too on goingwith your gut and, and you know, the, I think that's an entrepreneur way is forsure we need to consume coaching and training and those resources. But when itcomes down to it, the execution is still on us to do. And so if we cake, um,because the advice and the direction we'll receive will, will guide us in allthese different directions. It won't be all cohesive into one clear path thatwe must take. And so as I think it's the matter of like, well, let's consumeand receive what we need to from those we trust but then still move forward andwhat we feel is best, even if we make mistakes along the way.

New Speaker (28:39):

And what I will like to build upon that, it's um, youknow, it was really powerful. So Marie Larson, um, I don't know if you've metMarie Larson, if those are who are listening, I don't know if she's stillactive as she is active.

Mark (28:53):

You should absolutely follow her. But one of the thingsyou told me was, this was before I launched my first summit. She says you needto like your first 30 interviews as a podcast. Like if you had a podcast or avideo, um, video podcasts, or if you're doing a summit, like the first 30 areall about you getting your voice. So if they're not perfect, if they'reawkward, like that's fine. Um, but she was like, it takes about 30 times ofdoing that and by the 30th she's like, there's something magical that happensat 30 is the time that you do it, that they'll learn shifts from, you're tryingto find your voice to now having critical mass that the tone changes to youdelivering value to an audience is now, that's when she starts to see thenumber of people who tune in the engagement levels.

Mark (29:35):

You have your voice because you've now been doing this fora while, but she looked at like the number 30 as like a really powerful numberand then she layers it with after you've done that 30 don't ever delete youroriginal content. When it was awkward, when it was just starting out. Whenyou're trying to find your voice, you're not figuring it out. Um, because thatshows that you are human and if people find those and listen to those, they'regoing to be able to relate with you more because we all started from somewhereand the people who delete out that original content, like you lose that wholestory of like we came from where you are, we started from where you are, so weget it. Um, and I thought that was really powerful, um, hearing this like ruleof 30, so that was a big thing for me in wanting to get 30 behind me.

Mark (30:16):

Um, but like that's just it. The other thing about itthat's fun about this model and being able to interview people is you will oftentimes,like with my summit interviews, I take massive amounts of notes during theinterviews. And the reason I do that is just because, um, I, it registers a lotbetter with me and I can ask better questions. Um, and you have like the frontrow seat to ask whatever it is you want to to, um, who's ever doing theinterview or whoever you're interviewing. And, um, for me, like I would takethis opportunity. So then just go deeper and deeper into insights. Andoftentimes I'll leave those sessions and implement what I learned right away.So it's like the best form of free coaching that you can ask for. Mmm. Becauseyou get to ask whatever you want and chances are if you're curious about it,your listeners are too.

Dallin (31:05):

Yeah. Hands down, hands down. Well, and that comes downinto the idea of the 30 or however long it takes to craft your, your brandvoice and to find it. Especially, and this is a concept too, and I like you andI are in the same coaching group, right? Where like one aspect is know who youare, who is being talking to your who [inaudible] sometimes it's tricky to knowexactly who your who is as the first step. Um, to be honest, like I thinkwhat's important is, well, let's just start talking like, let's startpublishing. Like, let's start figuring out like what our voice is and along theway we can find our who, it doesn't have to be a perfect step-by-step sequence.Mmm. But as long as those I think happen as early as possible together. And,and that's, that's what I found for me like with this podcast, like I'm yeah,for sure.

Dallin (31:53):

I'm still, we're still finding her voice always right.It's always evolving. But, um, I mean I think this is at the time we'rerecording, this is probably close to my 100th episode. Started off reallyspotty, but like the name of the podcast changed. Like, you know, the types ofguests I was interviewing. I wasn't like doing solo podcasts episodes, but uh,but it's cool like whether it's virtual summits, podcasts, interviews, videointerviews, um, written, you know, whatever they form the content takes.There's a really cool opportunity, like you said, to not only learn from thoseyou interview and interact with, but to establish relationships early onbecause the more you can learn and pull from other people's stories, more thanthat, you can then kind of like a coach. Would you do what the coach, you wouldkind of filter out the information that applies to you and then move forwardwith your gut and your intuition to take those next steps in your business andin your life. And that's the power. Like selfishly I, this podcast is in bigpart for me.

New Speaker (33:02):

Yeah. It's funny though. It's interesting. It starts offselfish cause same thing. Part of, um, and here's another trick if you, if justfor the listeners, if you've ever struggled to take massive action, um, this isthe, the value of engaging other people and putting dates around things. Causethe second I said I'm doing a virtual summit and it's going to be October 1stthrough fifth and then I started having that conversation and onboardinginfluencers like guess what happened? It got done and massive action. When youhave those hard deadlines and you put it out in public, but you got to put it,if you just set up for yourself and no one else is holding you accountable,that's one thing.

Mark (33:36):

But like that whole journey was so much about me findingmy voice and getting comfortable publishing because I was so uncomfortable.Like I'd never been in front of a camera. And now I'm about to put on an eventwith 41 influencers and that was like, and I was in a job that didn't let me doit. So I left that job. It took me till May of 2018 to officially leave thejob. Uh, um, so it was like a good, like five months of transition out of thefirm to be in the place to finally leave. Um, but that was like what changedeverything because you're right, like not only if we live in our heads and doit ourselves, you won't have that level of engagement. Um, people may not knowwho you are, but the second that you start engaging influencers and buildingyour presence and getting more comfortable and building traction, okay. You'llbe surprised at like, I think I did the summit and I went from being a no onethat anyone new to now, like someone that people started inviting on theirsummits. People being in interviewing me for podcasts. There's a wholedifferent opportunity just because I gave myself permission to put on thisevent. No one told me to do it. I did it. And by doing it and just getting realreally loud.

Mark (34:39):

It just from like what, three months intoentrepreneurship, it changed everything for me. And if I hadn't had done that,I don't know if we'd be having this conversation right now. Hmm. Yeah.

Dallin (34:49):

That's a really interesting thing to point out too is thefact that, I mean you gave yourself permission and like the ability to executeon those ideas and I think Mmm. And whatever form it takes, but curating andmeeting like curating content from other people and their expertise, but alsojust putting the call out there to meet someone and you know, you're not doinga virtual summit or it's a podcast and you're whatever form it may take. You'renot doing it in a way to be like, Hey, buy from my offers, Mr influence or Mrsinfo. You know, like it's, I think it's more of an opportunity like, Hey, Iwant to build a new relationship and I, you know, I want to give you a platformto share to the audience side, but you know, like there's a win-wim opportunitythat happens when you, you can connect with people, especially if it's out of agenuine way. And I think, I think because you did that, um, it was genuine andthen, you know, I think it definitely was truly like the win-win opportunityfor those who you've featured and then your, you see the, the fruits that comefrom that and then it gives you more clarity on, well, what can I do next?Yeah. Yeah.

Mark (36:00):

The one thing that I also want to say, you talked aboutlike it's a process to find your hue and part of why it is a process and it'llchange in all change. And this is why I like engaging with others. This is whycreating a beta and putting it out there, um, and having like giving yourselfpermission to like, like for me, anytime I do a beta I want to have a directaccess to every student and I'm going to be talking with them. So I have a lotof engagement with them because that's like, it helps me get into my avatar andunderstand my avatar more. But the thing that I think I struggled with themost, was even if you get clarity on your who, um, the piece that I struggledwith was knowing what value was in this game and even the corporate realm. Iknow what value is in corporates. Um, I know when I create something and whatdegree of value it's going to be for whether it's my client or the partner I'mworking with, I know what value looks like in that game as an entrepreneur. Theterm like the metrics of value, cause it's, it's all in the eyes of the holder,but it's also all in the eyes of your avatar.

Mark (37:00):

I had no litmus of what value truly was. And that wasanother crutch for me was that now like I have clarity on who my who is, wellwhat is a value to the who and the reality is that's why just implementing andputting things out there, once I saw how they were engaging with my materials,I could gauge is this too much, is this too little, is this helpful? Is thisnot, is this on the right track or is it on the wrong track? And the moreclarity I had on the value of the materials I was putting out there and seeinghow it affected other people, it affects your pricing, it affects everything,it affects how people see you. Um, so that was what allowed me on my coachingprogram to start to increase my prices because people valued it a higher levelthan what I was valuing at myself. Cause I didn't know how to value things. Sothat was like probably the hardest thing my first year as an entrepreneur isgetting engaged with what value is in the right degree of value. And why thisis important is that if you undervalue something, your, your participants aregoing to undervalue it too. If you put it at a lower price, that part ofpricing and value are interconnected so heavily because you can have somethingthat's of high value, but if you low price it, it's instantly not going to beMmm. treated it at the level that it should be. Um, and I'll tell you like Ijust came back from a weekend that somebody put together a program and lowball, the pricing to a point that made me start to question sounds awesome, butyou've priced it in a way that I don't know if I would do that, but if youdoubled your price that I would feel more comfortable with that, which is weirdpsychology around it.

Mark (38:31):

But Mmm. There is a relationship between those two. Andthat was like the thing that like it took trial and error to get there. Butonce I started applying it and this is like putting products out in themarketplace and then really engaging with customers on them and theirexperiences with it. That's what helped me kind of find the balance in the barof what value truly was.

Dallin (38:54):

That's powerful. That, and that's, and that's where Ithink the key in just being willing to start publishing. I've removing all ofthose just even if it's not perfect, right? Like I think we had caught up withwhat to say and our videos. Um, cause I, you know, I've sent, I'm saying thismany times, but I think it all boils down to the fear of judgment. Yeah. Reallyrecharge yourself more so you know, also other people judging us. And the morewe can put ourselves out there and just simply publish and figure out to say aswe go along and then start gauging like you said, what other people need andwant as a result of, um, who we start to talk to, who we gravitate towards, themore we start figuring out what, what is our brand voice? Who do we want toserve? Well, this is good. Mark. This is so good. Um, once again, like I'mtaking all these notes that I w I like I right after this, I'm swear I'm goingto like just put them all down and want to implement so many. This is good. Um,so for the listeners then, for those who need that permission right now to, totake the next step, Mmm. To open up new doors, what would you say to them?

Mark (40:10):

Mmm, yeah. So I think back when I was in corporate, um,the thing that was probably most disruptive for me, um, we get so set in ourways in terms of doing the same thing again and again. And in our head we maysay the what if. So when that day comes, um, and when you're ready, you'regoing to know when you're ready cause like, like I would have you asked him?When I started my job in corporate consulting, if you'd ask me like what Iwanted to do, I would have told you I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And if itwere up to me, I would have left it year two, but I wasn't ready at year twoand it took me four more years after that. So I was in that corporate job forsix years, literally traveling every week for six years. Um, and a lot changedto get me to a state of being ready to make the transition.

Mark (40:58):

And I really liked, I had a great time, I had a reallygood experience. But I think that the most important thing I would say is Mmm.By like if you are in a corporate job, um, we go to conferences, go to like,here's the thing. Oftentimes we don't do things like going to conferences ordoing like crazy events that you see out there that a lot of entrepreneurs puttogether. Um, because we want to do it with someone else and we want thesecurity of having someone else. And I would say the real benefit and thechallenge is. When I started going to conferences, I was the only person I knewthere. I went to funnel hacking live for the first time. I think for the firsttwo times I went to funnel hacking live, I knew one other person and the thirdtime I went to funnel hacking live, I knew about three to 400, but likestarting out that journey.

Mark (41:47):

Um, and then just like not having to wait for anyone else.You know, again, this is all about giving yourself permission to do it. Um, Ithink of the, if I had to pinpoint the singular event that I did, and this iswhat I'd say is fine moments like these is I went to an event, um, two yearsinto my corporate job. It was an event put on by Mind Valley called a fast. Um,it's an event the Vishen Lakhiani hosts and he brings in mindfulness withentrepreneurship and some amazing like Ted Talk speakers, all in an exoticlocation. And it was a pretty low point in my life that made me seek somethinglike that out. But it was, I found it because I was on YouTube and I startedsurfing for like videos. And then if you've ever done kind of like the goingdown the video recommendation trail and somehow led me to videos from a fastand I tried to get friends to go to this event, um, and no one wanted to go in.

Mark (42:39):

And because they were all in the same world as me. Andfinally I was just like, I need something to look forward to in the weeksahead. I need to do this even if it like really makes me uncomfortable. And I'mthe this corporate guy who's like deep corporate with an MBA. Mmm. But what hadhappened by going to this event, I showed up this event not knowing anyone.Mmm. And I, aye was introduced to entrepreneurs, digital nomads, people whowere living life on their own terms, doing their own things. I'm a sector and atype of people that I had never been exposed to because everyone in my worldwas just like me. The people I surrounded myself, we're just like me. So Ithink that, um, what was really powerful about that was it was an experience Ihad that like when you go through an experience like that and something thatyou do potentially even alone because you want to experience it, um, and youcan't find anyone else who wants to do it.

Mark (43:32):

What that did for me was it, uh, created something that,um, redefined, um, the world around me. It was one of those moments that youkind of take a step back and go, having attended this and now been exposed to adifferent type of person, different type of environment. Um, I knew it was likea moment that nothing would ever be the same. Um, so that's the challenge. Iwould say people, if they were listening, if you are stuck, stuck in your waysand you noticed that you do the same thing. Find those opportunities that willdisrupt what you're doing and puts you in a different state or situation. Evenif it's you going alone. For some people, it's going to a Tony Robbins event.Whatever that thing is, look for those disruptive opportunities because I promiseyou when you come back from them, the bubble of the world that you live in willburst.

Mark (44:17):

And having this moments that nothing will ever be the sameagain. That's what kind of rewired my mindset to get on the track of being morecomfortable with taking that action. So I don't know, that's I guess a longwinded way just saying find opportunities to disrupt yourself, um, because ifyou do, Mmm, it'll expand and even burst your bubble in ways that will set youon a new path.

Dallin (44:42):

That's powerful. I just wrote that down. That's such aquotable piece too around finding disruptive opportunities. And, and onceagain, like, and that's what I love about like the concept of story therapy isas you talk about your own experiences, I start putting myself in your shoesand I, I kinda, I walked that path in the way that well, this is how it relatesto me and I hope others can do that on, on the show and other content that, youknow, we put out there is the fact that we share these stories and experiencesbecause we want you to follow, um, your own path for sure, but also learn fromwhat we have experienced as well and what we're experiencing right now. Sogood. Well, Mark, where can people learn more about you and your story?

Mark (45:27):

Yeah, you can look me up on Facebook and um, for this orlistening, um, feel free to reach out to me. I love connecting with new peopleon messenger. So I'm just like a Mark Stern on Facebook. Clickpreneur is mycore product. There's a Facebook group for Clickpreneur. We're about to belaunching high ticket online, so that will go live. I think in about a week ortwo. You'll see I take it that online will be live. Um, but those are probablythe biggest avenues right now in live online. Liv launch your virtual eventlive online dot. Online is, Mmm. You know, my core website too, so lots ofplaces. Probably the easiest.

Dallin (46:00):

Good. Yeah, that's a solid good. Thank you so much. It'sbeen good.

Mark (46:04):

Yeah. Thank you. I love what you're doing, so I appreciateyou bringing me on.

Dallin (46:09):

Thanks so much for listening. Once again, if you wouldlike to learn more about how you can use your unique message to share with theworld through video and create videos that actually are professional andperform, bring you money and all of the results and influence that you want tomake, then I invite you to learn more by going to content Thanksagain for listening and we'll talk to you very soon.

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